I keep reading that GH should be above 7 and KH above 10, but what's the deal when both are around 18?
I'm in a super hard water area - my kettle's basically a chalk factory. I'm worried this water might be too harsh for Mbuna.
I've got the salts and all to recreate the right water composition, but with my tap water being so hard, I'd have to use RO water and then add the salts - seems like a lot of hassle. Can I just use tap water with a dash of trace elements instead?
Is hard water a concern?
Re: Is hard water a concern?
I'd say your tap water is spot on for mbuna. I mean, Rifties in Cornwall would probably give their right fin for it.
Looking at the GH and KH, it seems like your water is pretty much perfect. I found this info on malawimayhem.com that explains it pretty well.
So, the GH is all about the magnesium and calcium in the water, and for Africans, you want it between 160-320 ppm or 9-18° DH. Some people get confused and call it 'German hardness', but that's not entirely correct. It's more about the scale used to measure it.
As for KH, or carbonate hardness, it's all about the water's ability to keep the pH stable. It's like a sponge that absorbs any additives that might affect the pH. For a Rift Lake aquarium, you want the KH to be between 180-240 ppm or 10-14° DH.
In your case, with your GH and KH matching at 18-ish, I think you're golden. Just add a bit of trace elements to your tap water and you're good to go.
Looking at the GH and KH, it seems like your water is pretty much perfect. I found this info on malawimayhem.com that explains it pretty well.
So, the GH is all about the magnesium and calcium in the water, and for Africans, you want it between 160-320 ppm or 9-18° DH. Some people get confused and call it 'German hardness', but that's not entirely correct. It's more about the scale used to measure it.
As for KH, or carbonate hardness, it's all about the water's ability to keep the pH stable. It's like a sponge that absorbs any additives that might affect the pH. For a Rift Lake aquarium, you want the KH to be between 180-240 ppm or 10-14° DH.
In your case, with your GH and KH matching at 18-ish, I think you're golden. Just add a bit of trace elements to your tap water and you're good to go.
Re: Is hard water a concern?
can water be too hard for Mbuna? i'm in a hard water area and my kettle's got a serious chalk build-up - is this water too harsh for them? i've got the salts to simulate their natural water composition but using tap water seems like a gamble, or should i just add a hint of trace elements to it?
Re: Is hard water a concern?
Thanks for that, really helpful.fluxeon8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 7:27 pm can water be too hard for Mbuna? i'm in a hard water area and my kettle's got a serious chalk build-up - is this water too harsh for them? i've got the salts to simulate their natural water composition but using tap water seems like a gamble, or should i just add a hint of trace elements to it?
I've got my pH stable at 8 now, using an alkali buffer, and my tap water's around 7.5, so that's all good. The buffer's also bumped up my KH to around 18, which I'm happy with.
My main concern now is, if I add the cichlid lake salts to get the micronutrients and salts up to Mbuna standards, will the total water hardness be a problem? Will it balance itself out at 18, with the excess salts just staying solid and only the ones not in my tap water dissolving?
I'm guessing the salts and dissolved solids in the Malawi system are different to what's coming out of my tap, so I'm not sure if adding these salts will cause any issues. Anybody with a chemistry background care to weigh in?
Re: Is hard water a concern?
... yeah yeah, a truely useful commentflyer9 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:18 pm I keep reading that GH should be above 7 and KH above 10, but what's the deal when both are around 18?
I'm in a super hard water area - my kettle's basically a chalk factory. I'm worried this water might be too harsh for Mbuna.
I've got the salts and all to recreate the right water composition, but with my tap water being so hard, I'd have to use RO water and then add the salts - seems like a lot of hassle. Can I just use tap water with a dash of trace elements instead?
I was being sarcastic, but I suppose there's some truth to it. Anyway, back to my question - Nurglespuss, any insight from a chemistry perspective?
Re: Is hard water a concern?
I've finally managed to send off a plea for help to Nurglespuss, fingers crossed someone with a chemistry background can shed some light on my water woes.
Re: Is hard water a concern?
I'm also in Hertfordshire, and I can tell you that your tap water is probably perfect for Malawis. No need to go down the RO route and then remineflakeize it, that's a lot of hassle. I had Malawis before and the tap water was great for them, but now I'm looking at Discus, it's a different story.
I did my own research and tested the tap water myself, but I also contacted the water company to get the official readings for GH, KH, and pH. Interestingly, my own tests showed the water to be slightly softer and less alkaline than what the company reported - about 2dH softer, to be exact.
I did my own research and tested the tap water myself, but I also contacted the water company to get the official readings for GH, KH, and pH. Interestingly, my own tests showed the water to be slightly softer and less alkaline than what the company reported - about 2dH softer, to be exact.
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sharpfin12 - Posts: 5
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Re: Is hard water a concern?
If you're worried about the water being too hard, here's a simple test - dip your hand in and see if it comes out with a layer of limescale on it.fluxeon8 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 7:27 pm can water be too hard for Mbuna? i'm in a hard water area and my kettle's got a serious chalk build-up - is this water too harsh for them? i've got the salts to simulate their natural water composition but using tap water seems like a gamble, or should i just add a hint of trace elements to it?
Re: Is hard water a concern?
Thanks for reaching out. Not a pure chemist here, but I'll give you my two cents. Your tap water seems to be a good starting point, chemistry-wise. Adding pH buffers, targeting a range of 8-8.4, and the necessary salts should keep your Mbuna in top shape.
In my opinion, your local tap water is fine, but it might not be enough to make your Mbuna truly thrive. Adding the right salts and buffering the pH to 8-8.4 should do the trick.
Also, have you considered getting a sample of the water your Mbuna are currently in? That might give you a better idea of what you're working with.
And let's be real, using reverse osmosis is rarely worth the hassle. You'd be stripping the water of all its natural elements, only to add them back in later. That's just a lot of unnecessary work.
In my opinion, your local tap water is fine, but it might not be enough to make your Mbuna truly thrive. Adding the right salts and buffering the pH to 8-8.4 should do the trick.
Also, have you considered getting a sample of the water your Mbuna are currently in? That might give you a better idea of what you're working with.
And let's be real, using reverse osmosis is rarely worth the hassle. You'd be stripping the water of all its natural elements, only to add them back in later. That's just a lot of unnecessary work.
Re: Is hard water a concern?
I'm definitely not a fan of using RO for my Mbuna setup, no way. I do use it for my Zorchzon community tank, but that's a different story altogether. My Mbuna tank is up and running now, and the guys seem to be loving it.
My tap water's GH is sitting between 16 and 18, which is perfect, and the KH is around 15 to 17. The issue I'm facing is the pH - it's around 7.5, which is a bit too low for my liking. I'm having to add buffers to get it up to around 8.5, and while that's working, it's also bumping up the GH and KH to around 18. I just hope that's not going to cause any problems down the line, especially with the KH - I've heard that can be a bit of a concern if it gets too high.
My tap water's GH is sitting between 16 and 18, which is perfect, and the KH is around 15 to 17. The issue I'm facing is the pH - it's around 7.5, which is a bit too low for my liking. I'm having to add buffers to get it up to around 8.5, and while that's working, it's also bumping up the GH and KH to around 18. I just hope that's not going to cause any problems down the line, especially with the KH - I've heard that can be a bit of a concern if it gets too high.