choosing compatible tankmates for angelfish

[julia]

Hi everyone,

I didn't post this in the tropical emergencies section, as it's not immediately critical, but I'm concerned it might become an issue down the line.

I recently received a gift for my 55gal tank - 3 pearl gouramis and a juvenile angelfish. While I appreciate the thought, I'm worried about the compatibility of these fish with my existing neon tetras and corydoras.

The angelfish is the main concern. I've been told they don't mix well with neon tetras, who might become their future snacks, and gouramis, due to aggression issues. I'm also unsure if keeping a lone angelfish is okay.

Is there a way to make this work? I'd love to keep the angelfish, but if not, I'm not sure what to do with it. Moving it to my 10gal tank isn't an option, and I don't think I can get a refund. Re-homing seems like the only choice, but I've heard it's stressful for the fish.

I've read that, with certain conditions, angelfish can coexist with other fish. These conditions include:
1. Established, large neon tetras and a young angelfish
2. Plenty of hiding places
3. A single, unpaired angelfish (preferably female)
4. No fin nipping
5. Non-aggressive gouramis in a small group
6. A large tank
7. Angelfish growing up with smaller fish from a young age to learn they're not food.

I think I've covered points 1, 4, 5, and 6. I'll be adding plants soon, which should provide plenty of hiding places. However, I'm unsure about the angelfish's gender or temperament.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but I'd appreciate any advice.

TIA,
PPJ

EDIT- The pearl gouramis are missing chunks from their tails, but the person who bought them said the shop assistant claimed they were new stock and came that way from the producer. With proper care, I'm sure they'll heal. I'm mentioning this as aggressive fish often target weaker ones. The angelfish seems stressed as well.

[julia]

I had a random thought - I'm curious about how the angelfish will look when it grows up. Assuming it's a P. Scalare, I found this pic online of what it looks like now.

But I'm wondering, as it matures, will it end up looking more like this

or this?

Honestly, if I can make it work and keep it, I think the second one is way cooler - no offense to the other one, of course.

[sidthy]

You won't know exactly what the angelfish will look like when it's fully grown, until it's, well, fully grown. The third one in your pic is an adult, and the other two are juveniles, so that's a pretty big difference. Good maintenance, water parameters, stress levels, food quality, and of course genetics, will all play a part in its final appearance.

[bettaMagenta]

I think Angelfish are bred and cross-bred so frequently, their adult appearance can be quite unpredictable, unless you're familiar with the specific genetics behind your individual fish.

[sidthy]

It seems like some domestic strains of angelfish, particularly the older ones like silvers, have a bit of a mixed heritage - they're actually hybrids of P. scalare and P. leopoldi, which is pretty interesting when you think about it. Apparently, this happened way back when people thought leopoldi were just scalare and hadn't yet figured out they were a different species altogether.

[Burgermuncher]

I've had my fair share of raising angels, and one thing I've noticed is that their markings tend to stay relatively consistent as they mature. They might change a bit, but not drastically. The real challenge is predicting their adult size - I've had some angels grow quite large, while others remain smaller.

In the past, I attempted to keep pearls and angels together, but it didn't quite work out. I eventually had to separate them, as it seemed the pearls fared better in the community tank with less conflict.

Regarding the concern about angels snacking on neons, I think it's a bit of a grey area. If you were to introduce neons into a tank with adult angels, I'd expect the neons to become a snack. However, if the angel grows up with the neons, the outcome might be different. I have a 75-gallon tank with 11 home-raised angels, and I've been surprised to see them coexist with a single ember tetra for over a year. I wouldn't have expected this, but it's been a pleasant surprise.

[graye]

I recall a time when neon tetras were sold as sub-adults, incredibly small and affordable. It was no surprise that adult angels would view them as a snack, but in my experience, adult tetras have never been a target. I've kept full-grown wild scalare with them, and they coexisted peacefully.

Male pearl gouramis, on the other hand, can be quite aggressive towards each other - it's unpleasant to watch. However, I've observed that they tend to ignore angels, and vice versa. The concern for me isn't the pattern, as I prefer wild-type angels. What bothers me is the fin length. Many domestic angels have stumpy fins, which is not typical in the wild. While it's true that some wild angels do have shorter fins, it's not as common as I see in the hobby.

[Bisco]

I've had a good experience with keeping angels and pearl gouramis together. I have a 75g tank with a pair of young adult angels I've raised from babies - they've even spawned twice now. The tank also has 3 pearl gouramis, a mix of one male and two females, along with some cories and 2 BN plecos. Despite having a lot of different fish, I've not had any issues. There are plenty of plants and hideouts for everyone, which I think helps. I don't have neons in this tank, but I do have a group of black phantom tetras, which are larger than neons. I have kept neons with angels before, though, and as long as the neons aren't too small or they grow up together with the angels, I've not had any problems.

[julia]

I'm thinking my neons are a decent size now, not massive, but bigger than when I first got them. Maybe if I feed everyone a bit more, the neons will get even chunkier and the angel won't be as hungry. I counted the neons this morning and they're all still there, so that's a plus. Now I'm worried about the pygmy corydoras, though - they're smaller than the neons, and even with their spiky armor, I'm not sure the angel won't see them as a snack.

I was reading that wild angels develop that nice pale yellow, red, or orange crown as they age, but many-generation domestic ones don't. That's a shame, but my little guy already looks pretty good - he's got those red eyes with the black bar running through them, and he's amazing at camouflage. On the way home, he lost his stripes and turned white in the white bag, but as soon as I pulled him out into the darker car, he started striping again. It's really cool.

The pearls seem to be getting along great - two of them are already paired up and are together all the time, but they're okay with the third one joining in. I'm hoping it's one male and two females, but no idea - they're too young for colors, and with those half-tails, it's hard to tell. Two of them have a feeler that looks like it's got a kink in it, but I read that's just from regrowing after being bitten or cut. They seem to be using them just fine, so I'm not too worried.

As for the bitten tails, how much damage is too much for them to regrow? One of the pearls has a nip all the way near the base, but there's no redness or anything, so I'm hoping it'll recover. The others look like they should be fine, and they're all swimming normally, so that's good.

I guess what I'm hearing is that I should just leave the angel in and see how it goes?

[sidthy]

I've seen many Angels that don't colour up, but there are plenty that do. Generally, most Angels aren't big enough to see full-grown neons as a snack, and they tend to leave them alone. A tall tank can help with this, as it gives the Angels less opportunity for a quick lunge. Since Angels like to hang out near the top of the tank, and Neons prefer the bottom, it can also help to reduce interactions.

What does concern me is the potential issue with the Corys. If the Angel starts going after them, it can be disastrous for both fish. The Cory's pectoral spines can get stuck in the Angel's cheeks, and it's likely that both fish will end up dying.

Another potential problem is with the gouramis. Both Angels and gouramis like to be near the surface, so there might be some competition for space. However, in a large tank like yours, this might not be as much of an issue.

As for sexing the gouramis, the dorsal fin is usually the easiest way to tell. They only start to colour up when they're mature, so it's hard to tell at this stage. Generally, it's best to have more females than males. If you can get some pictures of the gouramis, that might help us figure out their sex.

Regarding the fins, as long as the damage isn't too close to the base, they should grow back within a few weeks.