Columnaris infection: seeking advice
Columnaris infection: seeking advice
I've treated my fish for bacteria and fungus using internal bacteria meds and just finished an anti-fungus and white spot treatment yesterday, but sadly, I haven't seen any improvement. He's been going downhill since around November, his fins getting more and more ragged. Despite this, his appetite and behaviour are still good, which is a relief. My tank's been established for over 2.5 years now, with 0ppm ammonia and nitrite, and nitrates around 10ppm (it's planted, so that's normal). I'm in the UK, so some meds are hard to get hold of. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
I'm going to advise you to stop adding medications or treatments unless you're certain about the issue at hand. We need to take a step back and assess the situation.
Can you please provide pictures of the fish from the side? This will give us a better understanding of the problem. What are the symptoms you're seeing, and how long has this been going on?
If you're concerned about the creamy white patches, it's likely excess mucus produced by the fish in response to an irritant in the water. This could be poor water quality, plant fertilizers, medications, or external chemicals getting into the water.
To address this, you could try doing large (75%) water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate daily for a week or two. This should help dilute whatever is irritating the fish. If that doesn't work, consider adding some carbon to the filter to remove chemicals and heavy metals. If the issue persists, it might be an external protozoan infection like Costia, Chilodonella, or Trichodina, which can be treated with salt.
Can you please provide pictures of the fish from the side? This will give us a better understanding of the problem. What are the symptoms you're seeing, and how long has this been going on?
If you're concerned about the creamy white patches, it's likely excess mucus produced by the fish in response to an irritant in the water. This could be poor water quality, plant fertilizers, medications, or external chemicals getting into the water.
To address this, you could try doing large (75%) water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate daily for a week or two. This should help dilute whatever is irritating the fish. If that doesn't work, consider adding some carbon to the filter to remove chemicals and heavy metals. If the issue persists, it might be an external protozoan infection like Costia, Chilodonella, or Trichodina, which can be treated with salt.
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TwinTankman - Posts: 60
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:55 am
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
If Colin's assessment is incorrect and Columnaris is indeed the culprit, it's crucial to administer the right antibiotic to cure the fish. This disease comes in various strains, some of which are extremely virulent, killing fish before any external symptoms are visible. On the other hand, milder strains can persist for a long time, but if left untreated, can still result in death.
There are a few indicators that can help determine if Columnaris is present. These cues are often reflected in the common names associated with the disease. For instance, it's sometimes referred to as "mouth fungus" due to its appearance on the mouth of the fish, which can be mistaken for a fungal infection. Another name is "saddle back disease" because a white patch often forms at the base of the dorsal fin.
I came across an article that may be helpful in understanding Columnaris. However, the authors make a critical error in their suggestion to use a hospital tank for treatment, which they themselves contradict by highlighting the highly infectious nature of the disease. Given this, I strongly advise against using a hospital tank to treat Columnaris if you're certain your fish has it. Instead, it's essential to treat the entire tank to prevent the disease from spreading to other fish. We can't determine the extent of exposure to other tank inhabitants if we know one fish has the disease.
The article can be found at https://fishlab.com/columnaris/. It's worth noting that Columnaris can also affect the gills of fish, making it challenging to detect. In my experience, I've had moderate success in treating Columnaris over the years, with minimal losses once I was able to diagnose it. I've always treated the entire tank, including a 75-gallon tank containing 40 imported redline barbs. While treating a large tank can be costly, it's essential to prioritize the health of all fish.
As Colin pointed out, it's crucial to confirm the presence of Columnaris before deciding on a treatment plan. Better pictures would be incredibly helpful in making this determination. Most fish medications can be stressful for fish, and stress is a significant contributor to the development of diseases. However, there's a delicate balance between the stress caused by medication and the benefits it can provide in achieving a cure.
Unless it's absolutely necessary to take a best-guess approach to treatment, it's generally better to have a clear understanding of the issue before administering medication. In the case of Columnaris, I've read research suggesting some success with using Choramine-T as a treatment option.
There are a few indicators that can help determine if Columnaris is present. These cues are often reflected in the common names associated with the disease. For instance, it's sometimes referred to as "mouth fungus" due to its appearance on the mouth of the fish, which can be mistaken for a fungal infection. Another name is "saddle back disease" because a white patch often forms at the base of the dorsal fin.
I came across an article that may be helpful in understanding Columnaris. However, the authors make a critical error in their suggestion to use a hospital tank for treatment, which they themselves contradict by highlighting the highly infectious nature of the disease. Given this, I strongly advise against using a hospital tank to treat Columnaris if you're certain your fish has it. Instead, it's essential to treat the entire tank to prevent the disease from spreading to other fish. We can't determine the extent of exposure to other tank inhabitants if we know one fish has the disease.
The article can be found at https://fishlab.com/columnaris/. It's worth noting that Columnaris can also affect the gills of fish, making it challenging to detect. In my experience, I've had moderate success in treating Columnaris over the years, with minimal losses once I was able to diagnose it. I've always treated the entire tank, including a 75-gallon tank containing 40 imported redline barbs. While treating a large tank can be costly, it's essential to prioritize the health of all fish.
As Colin pointed out, it's crucial to confirm the presence of Columnaris before deciding on a treatment plan. Better pictures would be incredibly helpful in making this determination. Most fish medications can be stressful for fish, and stress is a significant contributor to the development of diseases. However, there's a delicate balance between the stress caused by medication and the benefits it can provide in achieving a cure.
Unless it's absolutely necessary to take a best-guess approach to treatment, it's generally better to have a clear understanding of the issue before administering medication. In the case of Columnaris, I've read research suggesting some success with using Choramine-T as a treatment option.
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
Thanks for your comment, I really appreciate it. I want to assure you I'm doing my best here, the last thing I want is to lose my fish. I completely understand where you're coming from about not throwing meds at the problem, but I've been doing lots of research and trying to make educated guesses. I've only tried two meds so far, with a big gap in between, so I'm not just randomly adding things to the tank. I've been spending hours reading and trying to learn as much as I can, but it's tough with all the conflicting info out there. I've attached some more photos, I hope these are more helpful - taking pics of a dark-coloured fish isn't easy, but I've tried my best.
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
The symptoms I've observed in my fish are ragged fins and discoloured patches on its body and face, which have become more noticeable over time. Fortunately, it still has a good appetite and doesn't appear to have lost any weight. However, I have noticed that it's become slightly more lethargic, although it still swims around the tank.
This has been going on for about four months now, since November. Initially, I thought the patches might be marbling, but as time went on, it became clear that it was an illness.
This has been going on for about four months now, since November. Initially, I thought the patches might be marbling, but as time went on, it became clear that it was an illness.
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
If the issue has been ongoing for 4 months, I'm inclined to think it's not Columnaris, as that tends to be a more aggressive disease that takes hold quickly.
The grey or white patches on the body and fins are likely a sign of excess mucous production, which is often a response to external irritants like protozoan parasites such as Costia, Chilodonella, or Trichodina. I've found that fluke treatments usually do the trick for this type of issue.
The previous white spot treatment may not have been effective due to various factors, such as the age of the medication, whether it was still potent, or if it was used at the correct dosage. Additionally, if you had activated carbon in the filter, it could have neutralized the medication.
To accurately determine the volume of water in your tank, you can follow these steps: measure the length, width, and height of the tank in centimeters, then divide by 1000 to get the volume in liters. Make sure to measure the height from the top of the substrate to the water level, and remove any large decorations like rocks or driftwood before taking the measurement.
If you need to convert liters to gallons, you can use the calculator available on this site.
Before treating with chemicals, be sure to remove any carbon from the filter, as it can absorb the medication and render it ineffective. However, if you're using salt, you don't need to remove the carbon.
When using salt, you can add rock salt, swimming pool salt, or non-iodized salt to the tank at a dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 liters of water. If you don't see any improvement after 48 hours, you can double the dose rate. Maintain this salt level for 2 weeks, and if you don't see any improvement after a week, please post more pictures.
The salt won't harm the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp, or snails. After the treatment, you'll need to dilute the salt out of the tank gradually. Start with 10% water changes each day for a week, using only fresh, dechlorinated water. Then, move on to 20% water changes each day for a week, and finally, you can do larger water changes.
When adding salt, make sure to dissolve it in a small bucket of tank water first, then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet over a couple of minutes. If you do water changes while using salt, be sure to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank to maintain a stable salt level and minimize stress on the fish.
The grey or white patches on the body and fins are likely a sign of excess mucous production, which is often a response to external irritants like protozoan parasites such as Costia, Chilodonella, or Trichodina. I've found that fluke treatments usually do the trick for this type of issue.
The previous white spot treatment may not have been effective due to various factors, such as the age of the medication, whether it was still potent, or if it was used at the correct dosage. Additionally, if you had activated carbon in the filter, it could have neutralized the medication.
To accurately determine the volume of water in your tank, you can follow these steps: measure the length, width, and height of the tank in centimeters, then divide by 1000 to get the volume in liters. Make sure to measure the height from the top of the substrate to the water level, and remove any large decorations like rocks or driftwood before taking the measurement.
If you need to convert liters to gallons, you can use the calculator available on this site.
Before treating with chemicals, be sure to remove any carbon from the filter, as it can absorb the medication and render it ineffective. However, if you're using salt, you don't need to remove the carbon.
When using salt, you can add rock salt, swimming pool salt, or non-iodized salt to the tank at a dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 liters of water. If you don't see any improvement after 48 hours, you can double the dose rate. Maintain this salt level for 2 weeks, and if you don't see any improvement after a week, please post more pictures.
The salt won't harm the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp, or snails. After the treatment, you'll need to dilute the salt out of the tank gradually. Start with 10% water changes each day for a week, using only fresh, dechlorinated water. Then, move on to 20% water changes each day for a week, and finally, you can do larger water changes.
When adding salt, make sure to dissolve it in a small bucket of tank water first, then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet over a couple of minutes. If you do water changes while using salt, be sure to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank to maintain a stable salt level and minimize stress on the fish.
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TwinTankman - Posts: 60
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:55 am
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
From those pics, I'm inclined to agree with Colin that it doesn't appear to be Columnaris. Given your location in the UK, I'm hesitant to suggest a specific medication, as my knowledge is based on products available in my region. Unless a UK-based member can recommend a suitable alternative that's readily available, I think Colin's approach is worth exploring.
If you do decide to try the salt treatment, it's worth noting that excessive salt levels can cause stress to the fish, which may manifest as erratic behavior, reminiscent of a 'drunken' state. However, I must emphasize that the recommended dosage is unlikely to cause such issues. Nonetheless, it's always better to be aware of potential signs of distress, even if they're unlikely to occur.
I'd appreciate it if you could keep us updated on the fish's progress, as this will help us better understand the effectiveness of the treatment and provide more informed guidance moving forward.
If you do decide to try the salt treatment, it's worth noting that excessive salt levels can cause stress to the fish, which may manifest as erratic behavior, reminiscent of a 'drunken' state. However, I must emphasize that the recommended dosage is unlikely to cause such issues. Nonetheless, it's always better to be aware of potential signs of distress, even if they're unlikely to occur.
I'd appreciate it if you could keep us updated on the fish's progress, as this will help us better understand the effectiveness of the treatment and provide more informed guidance moving forward.
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
Hi - thanks for your comments. I appreciate your input, and I've been doing some more reading. I do think that Columnaris can come in different strains, some of which can be pretty fast-acting and others that take longer to develop. I've already tried anti-fungal and white spot treatments, but unfortunately, they haven't made a difference. I'm a bit hesitant to try another medication, so I'll take your advice and try the salt treatment instead. I'll pick some up today and give it a go.
Re: Columnaris infection: seeking advice
Columnaris generally presents as white areas in the muscle and skin of the fish, which then turn red around the edges and spread, ultimately leading to the fish's demise within a week. However, some strains can kill within 24-48 hours of showing symptoms.
Considering the issue has been ongoing for 4 months, I'd say it's unlikely to be bacterial, as there's no visible tissue degradation on the fish's body. The fin rot could be caused by protozoan, bacterial, or fungal infections, but given the grey patches on the body, I'm inclined to think it's protozoan.
Considering the issue has been ongoing for 4 months, I'd say it's unlikely to be bacterial, as there's no visible tissue degradation on the fish's body. The fin rot could be caused by protozoan, bacterial, or fungal infections, but given the grey patches on the body, I'm inclined to think it's protozoan.