I set up a 40-gallon tank a while back and did a fishless cycle for two weeks - nitrite and ammonia dropped to zero. Added 3 small discus, then decided to ditch the gravel and go bare bottom. Thought the filter bacteria would pick up the slack, but boy was I wrong.
Noticed the discus getting darker and skittish, so I tested the water - 1ppm ammonia, zero nitrite and nitrate. Added Prime to detoxify and bumped up water changes to 30% daily. It's been almost 4 weeks and still no cycle - zero nitrite and nitrate.
Running 2 Aqua Clear 70 filters and a DIY 1-liter K1 bottle filter. Thinking maybe there's not enough surface area for bacteria in a bare bottom tank? Do I need a different filter? Would adding some bio balls like TSS help?
Thanks guys
Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
I'm afraid you might've jumped the gun a bit. Fishless cycles can drag on for up to 12 weeks, and it looks like you introduced the discus way too early. Now, the fish waste is kickstarting the cycle, which isn't ideal for the poor guys - they'll likely suffer from ammonia and nitrite spikes. Your best bet is to keep doing those big daily water changes to minimize the damage.
The filters will eventually get populated and take over, but it'll take time. Hang in there.
I'm afraid you might've jumped the gun a bit. Fishless cycles can drag on for up to 12 weeks, and it looks like you introduced the discus way too early. Now, the fish waste is kickstarting the cycle, which isn't ideal for the poor guys - they'll likely suffer from ammonia and nitrite spikes. Your best bet is to keep doing those big daily water changes to minimize the damage.
The filters will eventually get populated and take over, but it'll take time. Hang in there.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Don't stress about it.
Just commit to those large daily water changes for a bit and your discus will get through this. I know it's a challenge, but it's a proven solution.
P.s. Having just three discus isn't ideal. Ideally, you'd want at least six for a harmonious group. If possible, consider getting three more from the same breeder and batch for long-term success with these beautiful fish.
Don't stress about it.
Just commit to those large daily water changes for a bit and your discus will get through this. I know it's a challenge, but it's a proven solution.
P.s. Having just three discus isn't ideal. Ideally, you'd want at least six for a harmonious group. If possible, consider getting three more from the same breeder and batch for long-term success with these beautiful fish.
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jingleTingle - Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:41 am
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
A school of 5-6 discus is ideal, but you'll need a larger tank - at least 55 gallons, preferably bigger. I'm sure you know this, but I keep my Aquaclears set up with foam at the bottom, filter floss in the middle, and bio media as the final stage. This way, the floss and foam can be easily wrung out with water from the changes.
For now, consider using an instant bio culture - most pet stores carry them. Big water changes will also make a big difference.
A school of 5-6 discus is ideal, but you'll need a larger tank - at least 55 gallons, preferably bigger. I'm sure you know this, but I keep my Aquaclears set up with foam at the bottom, filter floss in the middle, and bio media as the final stage. This way, the floss and foam can be easily wrung out with water from the changes.
For now, consider using an instant bio culture - most pet stores carry them. Big water changes will also make a big difference.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
You did a fishless cycle, but two weeks was too short. The bacteria started growing, but it wasn't enough. Even if you did another fishless cycle before, you can't assume it'll take the same time. Removing the substrate and adding discus was a big mistake. I've done fishless cycles many times, and every tank cycled differently. I've never had a problem, but you will need massive water changes daily to keep your discus alive. Now your tank will take longer to cycle because you rushed into adding the discus. Take our advice as helpful, not criticism.
You did a fishless cycle, but two weeks was too short. The bacteria started growing, but it wasn't enough. Even if you did another fishless cycle before, you can't assume it'll take the same time. Removing the substrate and adding discus was a big mistake. I've done fishless cycles many times, and every tank cycled differently. I've never had a problem, but you will need massive water changes daily to keep your discus alive. Now your tank will take longer to cycle because you rushed into adding the discus. Take our advice as helpful, not criticism.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Daily water changes and vacuums are also a major obstacle to the cycle.
You see, by doing these water changes, you're essentially removing the waste that's supposed to break down into ammonia and other compounds, which in turn feed the nitrifying bacteria. It's like you're starving them of the nutrients they need to grow and thrive.
Daily water changes and vacuums are also a major obstacle to the cycle.
You see, by doing these water changes, you're essentially removing the waste that's supposed to break down into ammonia and other compounds, which in turn feed the nitrifying bacteria. It's like you're starving them of the nutrients they need to grow and thrive.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
I'm actually surprised it took me only 2 weeks for ammonia to drop and another 2 for nitrite, all with just ammonia and no additives.
I'm actually surprised it took me only 2 weeks for ammonia to drop and another 2 for nitrite, all with just ammonia and no additives.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
discups, I'm curious - did you start with a completely new setup, no pre-existing bio-media or SafeStart? And how much ammonia were you adding to the tank?
Adding a double dose of Safe Start might not be a bad idea. It's unlikely to cause any harm and could potentially speed up the development of your beneficial bacteria culture.
discups, I'm curious - did you start with a completely new setup, no pre-existing bio-media or SafeStart? And how much ammonia were you adding to the tank?
Adding a double dose of Safe Start might not be a bad idea. It's unlikely to cause any harm and could potentially speed up the development of your beneficial bacteria culture.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
I've been saying this for years, and this thread just proves my point. Remove the substrate from a mature tank, and you're almost guaranteed a huge ammonia spike and mini cycle. It doesn't matter what people say, I've seen it happen time and time again in my 20 years of fish keeping. The fact is, most of the beneficial bacteria (BB) are in the substrate, not just the filter.
This thread is a perfect example. The original poster did a fishless cycle for two weeks, then added fish and removed the substrate. Now they're dealing with an ammonia spike and struggling to get the cycle going again. It's not just a matter of the filter not being mature enough; it's about the loss of BB in the substrate.
Think of it like a landmass with tunnels underneath. The people on the surface (the substrate) get most of the food, while the people in the tunnels (the filter) get the leftovers. When the surface population is removed, the people in the tunnels suddenly have all the food they need, and their population explodes. That's what happens when you remove the substrate and the filter has to take over.
I know some people might disagree, but I've seen this happen too many times to ignore. If you remove the substrate from a mature tank, you need to be prepared for a mini cycle and potentially a huge ammonia spike. It's not just a matter of the filter's maturity; it's about the balance between the substrate and the filter.
I've been saying this for years, and this thread just proves my point. Remove the substrate from a mature tank, and you're almost guaranteed a huge ammonia spike and mini cycle. It doesn't matter what people say, I've seen it happen time and time again in my 20 years of fish keeping. The fact is, most of the beneficial bacteria (BB) are in the substrate, not just the filter.
This thread is a perfect example. The original poster did a fishless cycle for two weeks, then added fish and removed the substrate. Now they're dealing with an ammonia spike and struggling to get the cycle going again. It's not just a matter of the filter not being mature enough; it's about the loss of BB in the substrate.
Think of it like a landmass with tunnels underneath. The people on the surface (the substrate) get most of the food, while the people in the tunnels (the filter) get the leftovers. When the surface population is removed, the people in the tunnels suddenly have all the food they need, and their population explodes. That's what happens when you remove the substrate and the filter has to take over.
I know some people might disagree, but I've seen this happen too many times to ignore. If you remove the substrate from a mature tank, you need to be prepared for a mini cycle and potentially a huge ammonia spike. It's not just a matter of the filter's maturity; it's about the balance between the substrate and the filter.
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Re: Nitrogen cycle won't start
Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it. I'm planning to keep the ammonia at zero with water changes, Prime, and TSS until the cycle kicks in again. I have a couple of questions though. If Prime can detoxify ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, why do I still need to do water changes? Wouldn't using Prime and skipping the daily water changes actually speed up the process?
It's been almost four weeks since I've had ammonia in the tank, and I'm surprised I haven't seen a nitrite spike yet. Is it normal for it to take this long?
Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it. I'm planning to keep the ammonia at zero with water changes, Prime, and TSS until the cycle kicks in again. I have a couple of questions though. If Prime can detoxify ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, why do I still need to do water changes? Wouldn't using Prime and skipping the daily water changes actually speed up the process?
It's been almost four weeks since I've had ammonia in the tank, and I'm surprised I haven't seen a nitrite spike yet. Is it normal for it to take this long?
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