Hello fellow hobbyists,
I'm excited to set up my Discus tank and glad I found this forum. I've got experience with aquascapes, but I'm new to discus keeping.
My tank specs are 65 gallons, 100cm x 50cm x 50cm, with a good filter (1500 l/h), an inline heater, and an LED module. I'm planning a setup with river wood, some loa rocks, lots of dried leaves, and a few plants. My substrate is ada la plata sand, about 5cm high. I like the yellowish tint from tannins, but I'll use purigen to keep nitrates under control.
A few questions: is my tank size okay for 5 discus and a few dither fish? I've read it's fine here, but other forums are stricter. I could get a bigger tank, but I'm on a budget due to the pandemic.
Also, since I'm busy, I'm thinking of buying 5 discus, 12+ cm in size, to avoid the feeding frenzy that juvs need.
Any other advice or tips would be great.
Thanks!
Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
Hello, welcome. I've been thinking about your tank setup and I'm curious, have you considered the water displacement caused by the rocks, sand, plants, and wood? It's worth noting that larger fish can be a better option, given their more stable feeding requirements. Your plan to start with 12+ cm discus seems sensible, as it avoids the feeding frenzy associated with juveniles.
In my experience, a good rule of thumb is to allocate one fish per 7-8 gallons of actual water volume, after accounting for the space occupied by decorations and substrate. I've had success with this approach, combining it with regular water changes – at least 100% per week – using tap water and Prime.
Hello, welcome. I've been thinking about your tank setup and I'm curious, have you considered the water displacement caused by the rocks, sand, plants, and wood? It's worth noting that larger fish can be a better option, given their more stable feeding requirements. Your plan to start with 12+ cm discus seems sensible, as it avoids the feeding frenzy associated with juveniles.
In my experience, a good rule of thumb is to allocate one fish per 7-8 gallons of actual water volume, after accounting for the space occupied by decorations and substrate. I've had success with this approach, combining it with regular water changes – at least 100% per week – using tap water and Prime.
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
Hello and thanks for the response.
I've thought about the displaced water volume, and assuming 30 kgs of sand and 5-10 kgs of rock, I estimate my actual gallons to be around 55.
Concerning feeding, I've read about the requirements of juveniles, but I'm planning to get discus that are 12+ cms in size. Would 1-2 feedings per day be sufficient for them?
I'm also curious about your thoughts on my water change schedule. I currently do a 60-70% water change per week with prepared tap water. Is that enough?
I'm planning to create a complex layout with plenty of hiding spots to minimize aggressive behavior. I think it's a good idea to introduce the other fish first, like a small group of cardinals and a pair of rams, to cycle the tank and strengthen the biology before adding the discus. Am I on the right track?
Lastly, I've always thought that since ammonia levels are usually 0 in a matured filter, we mainly focus on keeping nitrates down through water changes. What's an acceptable nitrate level in a discus tank, in your opinion?
Thanks!
Hello and thanks for the response.
I've thought about the displaced water volume, and assuming 30 kgs of sand and 5-10 kgs of rock, I estimate my actual gallons to be around 55.
Concerning feeding, I've read about the requirements of juveniles, but I'm planning to get discus that are 12+ cms in size. Would 1-2 feedings per day be sufficient for them?
I'm also curious about your thoughts on my water change schedule. I currently do a 60-70% water change per week with prepared tap water. Is that enough?
I'm planning to create a complex layout with plenty of hiding spots to minimize aggressive behavior. I think it's a good idea to introduce the other fish first, like a small group of cardinals and a pair of rams, to cycle the tank and strengthen the biology before adding the discus. Am I on the right track?
Lastly, I've always thought that since ammonia levels are usually 0 in a matured filter, we mainly focus on keeping nitrates down through water changes. What's an acceptable nitrate level in a discus tank, in your opinion?
Thanks!
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
I think 12cm is still on the smaller side for discus, around 4.5" - they've got a lot of growing to do yet. For fish that size, I'd recommend more frequent feedings, at least 3-4 times a day. Daily water changes of 40-50% would also be a good idea. If you're looking at larger discus, 5.5-6"+, you can get away with 2 feedings a day.
Your tap water's quality will play a big role in how often you need to change the water. Have you checked the pH of your tap water straight from the faucet and after 24 hours of aeration? I've found that my tap water's pH is around 8.0, but after a day of aeration, it stabilizes at 7.8. If your pH swings more than 0.2, it's a good idea to age your water.
For me, I'd start with the discus first - they're the most sensitive to changes in the tank. Once they're settled in and healthy, you can think about adding other fish. With 5 discus, you're already pushing the limits of your tank. If you want some dither fish, I'd skip the rams and just add cardinals. A fishless cycle would be the way to go, then add the discus.
As for nitrates, I think anything under 10ppm is ideal.
I think 12cm is still on the smaller side for discus, around 4.5" - they've got a lot of growing to do yet. For fish that size, I'd recommend more frequent feedings, at least 3-4 times a day. Daily water changes of 40-50% would also be a good idea. If you're looking at larger discus, 5.5-6"+, you can get away with 2 feedings a day.
Your tap water's quality will play a big role in how often you need to change the water. Have you checked the pH of your tap water straight from the faucet and after 24 hours of aeration? I've found that my tap water's pH is around 8.0, but after a day of aeration, it stabilizes at 7.8. If your pH swings more than 0.2, it's a good idea to age your water.
For me, I'd start with the discus first - they're the most sensitive to changes in the tank. Once they're settled in and healthy, you can think about adding other fish. With 5 discus, you're already pushing the limits of your tank. If you want some dither fish, I'd skip the rams and just add cardinals. A fishless cycle would be the way to go, then add the discus.
As for nitrates, I think anything under 10ppm is ideal.
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
Originally posted by belleora
12cm equates to about 4.5". I would consider discus of this size still somewhat juvenile (think teenager vs. toddler). They still have a lot of growth potential to them, so I would recommend at least 3-4 feedings a day, and daily water changes of at least 40-50%. I would consider discus of 5.5-6"+ (14-15cm) to be "adult" (or near their full potential). With larger discus, you can get away with 2 feedings per day. I would not advise 1 feeding per day. With larger adult fish, you can get away with less water changes, but I'd be more comfortable with water changes at least twice weekly.
The frequency of water changes really depends on your tap water. Have you taken any readings of your tap water right out of the faucet vs. 24 hours after being aerated? The process of "aging" tap water is so that the water has a time to equalize itself in terms of pH. For example, my pH out of the tap is right around 8.0. After aging for 24 hours (and onwards) the pH stabilizes at 7.8. This small drop in pH would mean that I could technically not age my water and just use treated tap water in my aquarium. Being the OCD person I am, I still age my tap water. If your pH out of the tap, and then 24 hours later has a swing larger than 0.2, it's recommended to age the water.
I would personally start with discus first as they are the most finnicky and susceptible to change. Once you've got them in and healthy, you can consider adding different fish. With that said, you're really pushing the stocking limit with 5 discus already. If you want dither fish, I would forego adding rams altogether and just add cardinals. For cycling, I would do a fishless cycle and then add the discus first.
Ideal nitrate level is <10ppm.
I appreciate your insight,
I'm still puzzled about why discus require so many feedings during their juvenile stage. I mean, for other species, one feeding per day is sufficient, and the only trade-off is slower growth. Meanwhile, nitrates and water chemistry remain stable.
My tap water pH is around 7.4-7.5 without aging, which I assume is acceptable. The wood and leaves will also help lower my GH, which is currently 5 straight from the tap. To be realistic, a 120 cm tank with 360 liters (90 gallons) would be far more suitable for discus and maintaining optimal water parameters.
Originally posted by belleora
12cm equates to about 4.5". I would consider discus of this size still somewhat juvenile (think teenager vs. toddler). They still have a lot of growth potential to them, so I would recommend at least 3-4 feedings a day, and daily water changes of at least 40-50%. I would consider discus of 5.5-6"+ (14-15cm) to be "adult" (or near their full potential). With larger discus, you can get away with 2 feedings per day. I would not advise 1 feeding per day. With larger adult fish, you can get away with less water changes, but I'd be more comfortable with water changes at least twice weekly.
The frequency of water changes really depends on your tap water. Have you taken any readings of your tap water right out of the faucet vs. 24 hours after being aerated? The process of "aging" tap water is so that the water has a time to equalize itself in terms of pH. For example, my pH out of the tap is right around 8.0. After aging for 24 hours (and onwards) the pH stabilizes at 7.8. This small drop in pH would mean that I could technically not age my water and just use treated tap water in my aquarium. Being the OCD person I am, I still age my tap water. If your pH out of the tap, and then 24 hours later has a swing larger than 0.2, it's recommended to age the water.
I would personally start with discus first as they are the most finnicky and susceptible to change. Once you've got them in and healthy, you can consider adding different fish. With that said, you're really pushing the stocking limit with 5 discus already. If you want dither fish, I would forego adding rams altogether and just add cardinals. For cycling, I would do a fishless cycle and then add the discus first.
Ideal nitrate level is <10ppm.
I appreciate your insight,
I'm still puzzled about why discus require so many feedings during their juvenile stage. I mean, for other species, one feeding per day is sufficient, and the only trade-off is slower growth. Meanwhile, nitrates and water chemistry remain stable.
My tap water pH is around 7.4-7.5 without aging, which I assume is acceptable. The wood and leaves will also help lower my GH, which is currently 5 straight from the tap. To be realistic, a 120 cm tank with 360 liters (90 gallons) would be far more suitable for discus and maintaining optimal water parameters.
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
I've found that frequent feedings can help calm down aggression in discus, which can be quite feisty at times. It's not just about keeping them from getting too hungry, but also about preventing them from turning on smaller fish. I've had my fair share of experience with this, having added 40 cardinal tetras to my aquarium six months ago, only to be down to less than 20 now. Despite feeding twice a day, I still catch them chasing cardinals for snacks.
The idea behind frequent feedings is to provide a stable source of food throughout the day, rather than one large meal. It's similar to how humans develop eating habits as they grow older. Babies need feedings every few hours, while adults can get by with just a few meals a day. I'm not aware of any fish species that can thrive on just one meal a day.
While nitrates are an important aspect of water quality, they're not the only factor. Depleted nutrients and dissolved solids can also affect the health of your fish, and these can only be addressed through regular water changes.
I do agree that a slightly larger tank would be beneficial for keeping discus. It would allow for a more stable environment and give you the option to add other fish, like a ram pair or some dither fish.
I've found that frequent feedings can help calm down aggression in discus, which can be quite feisty at times. It's not just about keeping them from getting too hungry, but also about preventing them from turning on smaller fish. I've had my fair share of experience with this, having added 40 cardinal tetras to my aquarium six months ago, only to be down to less than 20 now. Despite feeding twice a day, I still catch them chasing cardinals for snacks.
The idea behind frequent feedings is to provide a stable source of food throughout the day, rather than one large meal. It's similar to how humans develop eating habits as they grow older. Babies need feedings every few hours, while adults can get by with just a few meals a day. I'm not aware of any fish species that can thrive on just one meal a day.
While nitrates are an important aspect of water quality, they're not the only factor. Depleted nutrients and dissolved solids can also affect the health of your fish, and these can only be addressed through regular water changes.
I do agree that a slightly larger tank would be beneficial for keeping discus. It would allow for a more stable environment and give you the option to add other fish, like a ram pair or some dither fish.
Re: Future Discus Setup
Thank you for this amazing answer. Everything you mentioned makes perfect sense and is well described. I can now relate the feeding philosophy for younger discus to human baby nutrition habits. It's clear that more frequent feedings can help reduce aggression in discus, and I appreciate the comparison to human babies and their feeding schedules.
I understand that even if I only have discus in the tank, aggression may still be a problem. However, I come from an aquascaping background where we often follow a rule of one feeding per day, and sometimes even less. This is because the large amount of plant mass in the tank provides a natural food source for the fish, allowing us to reduce feedings and maintain good water parameters. Additionally, the fish in aquascapes are generally smaller than discus, which means they have a lower bioload impact.
Taking all of this into consideration, I think my tank is still a viable option, but I'm starting to think that it would be better to increase my budget and buy a larger one. This would be a better choice in the long run, and I appreciate your input in helping me make this decision.
I understand that even if I only have discus in the tank, aggression may still be a problem. However, I come from an aquascaping background where we often follow a rule of one feeding per day, and sometimes even less. This is because the large amount of plant mass in the tank provides a natural food source for the fish, allowing us to reduce feedings and maintain good water parameters. Additionally, the fish in aquascapes are generally smaller than discus, which means they have a lower bioload impact.
Taking all of this into consideration, I think my tank is still a viable option, but I'm starting to think that it would be better to increase my budget and buy a larger one. This would be a better choice in the long run, and I appreciate your input in helping me make this decision.
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
I think it's worth mentioning that a thinner substrate layer could work in your favor. Using 1.5-2.0 cm of sand instead of 5.0 cm would make vacuuming easier and prevent gas pockets from forming. This would also give you more water volume for your fish. With multiple daily feedings, food and waste can settle into the substrate, making it dirtier and potentially increasing nitrate levels. A shallower substrate would help minimize this issue. For your plants, consider using basket pots to accommodate their roots.
I think it's worth mentioning that a thinner substrate layer could work in your favor. Using 1.5-2.0 cm of sand instead of 5.0 cm would make vacuuming easier and prevent gas pockets from forming. This would also give you more water volume for your fish. With multiple daily feedings, food and waste can settle into the substrate, making it dirtier and potentially increasing nitrate levels. A shallower substrate would help minimize this issue. For your plants, consider using basket pots to accommodate their roots.
Re: Future Discus Setup
You can do as you please with your setup, but if you want optimal health and growth for your discus, consider the methods shared here. They're based on the collective experience of experts who post regularly. I've lost fish by not following their advice, so I'm just sharing my two cents.
Re: Future Discus Setup
Re: Future Discus Setup
I think there's been some confusion about Purigen. It's great for removing tannins, but it won't do much for nitrates. If you want to keep those down, regular water changes are still your best bet. I've also heard that a good algae scrubber can help, but keep in mind it won't affect bacterial counts, which can be a real issue for discus health.
I think there's been some confusion about Purigen. It's great for removing tannins, but it won't do much for nitrates. If you want to keep those down, regular water changes are still your best bet. I've also heard that a good algae scrubber can help, but keep in mind it won't affect bacterial counts, which can be a real issue for discus health.
PHPBB-BG.INFO