I've got a 120 gallon tank, but with 2 overflows in the corners, I don't have the full 120 gallons for the fish. My sump adds about 20 gallons, so I'm looking at an effective water volume of around 150 gallons. The tank's currently stocked with 8 discus, ranging from 3-6 inches, 12 cardinal tetras, 7 corys, and a single bristlenose pleco.
The driftwood arrangement is pretty extensive, with a large piece spanning the right corner and about 75% of the tank's length. There are smaller pieces of driftwood scattered around, creating hiding spots on the sand substrate. As my fish grow, I'm starting to think that less is more - I'll probably cap the discus at 10, keeping the same dithers and bottom feeders.
I'm tempted to remove some of the extra driftwood to give the fish more swimming space. I love watching the discus graze along the bottom after a feeding, but the detritus tends to collect around the driftwood and rocks, which is a pain. As the fish grow, they'll only produce more waste. Aggression-wise, they get feisty around feeding time and establish a pecking order by chasing each other.
My question is: will having fewer decorations lead to more fighting and aggression? At night, I see them hanging out near the substrate - with fewer defined niches, will they fight more? Or could it be the opposite, with less niches to defend? I'd love to hear your thoughts. If you want to see the tank, there's an old pic in the planted tank section or you can search for "Limey".
Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
I feel like we're on the same wavelength, Mike - sand, driftwood layout, and its effects on waste collection, tankmates, the works.
Check out my old "Growing in planted 150 thread" and take a look at the pics. You'll see how I changed it up multiple times over the course of the thread. My current "Growing in... Again" thread has more pics of my revised scape. I've leaned towards the "less is more" approach twice, but I wish I'd never altered my original scape in the 150. I had this massive piece of driftwood that spanned about 65% of the tank, with different portions in different water columns, and a standalone trunk on the right side. The plants were insane - tons of them, and they multiplied like crazy. The funny thing is, my discus never hid and were always out and about during that layout. I had tons of breeding, and two pairs even raised little ones successfully in that tank with that layout.
I experimented with reducing the amount of driftwood touching the sand substrate and got rid of a lot of rooted plants. I switched to Java ferns and anubias, trying to grow bigger discus in a planted tank. I've gotten better at it each time, but I know I need a grow-out tank to get them super big. However, when I've tried the "less is more" approach, I've had the opposite effect. There are a lot of variables at play, though - even one group of discus can be more social than others, and lighting can affect their behavior (IME). Having the right size group of discus is key; some people have too many, and it's just not interesting to watch. Breaking up the tank with the right piece of driftwood, not too little or too much, is when I find it most entertaining.
Recently, I pulled my driftwood away from one corner so that half of it hangs there. I added more light in that corner, and now my discus are more interactive when I'm in front of the tank. I'm on the hunt for the perfect, large piece of driftwood, like my original setup. I'm sticking with Java fern and anubias, but I've also got some Crypts and a sword.
I'll check out your old pic later, Mike. I've got to do a quick water change on my youngest son's mbuna tank before he goes to bed.
Check out my old "Growing in planted 150 thread" and take a look at the pics. You'll see how I changed it up multiple times over the course of the thread. My current "Growing in... Again" thread has more pics of my revised scape. I've leaned towards the "less is more" approach twice, but I wish I'd never altered my original scape in the 150. I had this massive piece of driftwood that spanned about 65% of the tank, with different portions in different water columns, and a standalone trunk on the right side. The plants were insane - tons of them, and they multiplied like crazy. The funny thing is, my discus never hid and were always out and about during that layout. I had tons of breeding, and two pairs even raised little ones successfully in that tank with that layout.
I experimented with reducing the amount of driftwood touching the sand substrate and got rid of a lot of rooted plants. I switched to Java ferns and anubias, trying to grow bigger discus in a planted tank. I've gotten better at it each time, but I know I need a grow-out tank to get them super big. However, when I've tried the "less is more" approach, I've had the opposite effect. There are a lot of variables at play, though - even one group of discus can be more social than others, and lighting can affect their behavior (IME). Having the right size group of discus is key; some people have too many, and it's just not interesting to watch. Breaking up the tank with the right piece of driftwood, not too little or too much, is when I find it most entertaining.
Recently, I pulled my driftwood away from one corner so that half of it hangs there. I added more light in that corner, and now my discus are more interactive when I'm in front of the tank. I'm on the hunt for the perfect, large piece of driftwood, like my original setup. I'm sticking with Java fern and anubias, but I've also got some Crypts and a sword.
I'll check out your old pic later, Mike. I've got to do a quick water change on my youngest son's mbuna tank before he goes to bed.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
I've found that decorations don't necessarily reduce aggression in my discus. In fact, I've recently added large driftwood pieces to my tanks, which has resulted in a slight increase in aggression. It seems that with the driftwood in place, the discus feel they have actual territory to defend, rather than just empty space.
Of course, this has made tank maintenance more of a challenge. I picked up these driftwood pieces at ACA, and they're almost as long as the tank itself. I think I'd have an easier time with shorter pieces, maybe around 40-50% of the tank length.
I've found that decorations don't necessarily reduce aggression in my discus. In fact, I've recently added large driftwood pieces to my tanks, which has resulted in a slight increase in aggression. It seems that with the driftwood in place, the discus feel they have actual territory to defend, rather than just empty space.
Of course, this has made tank maintenance more of a challenge. I picked up these driftwood pieces at ACA, and they're almost as long as the tank itself. I think I'd have an easier time with shorter pieces, maybe around 40-50% of the tank length.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
I'm with wilde on this one, but I've got to say, I kind of enjoy the aggression and territories that come with having some decorations in the tank. It's like they've got their own little world going on, and it's pretty entertaining to watch.
I'm with wilde on this one, but I've got to say, I kind of enjoy the aggression and territories that come with having some decorations in the tank. It's like they've got their own little world going on, and it's pretty entertaining to watch.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
Thanks for sharing your experience, Elliot. I checked out your 150 planted tank and it looked great. I used to have crypts and jungle vals in the back, but they're gone now - the vals melted, and I didn't even realize they weren't dead at first. I've replaced them with two large amazon swords in the corners and various anubias and java fern attached to driftwood. I do a deep clean every week, which involves moving all the decorations and siphoning the sand - it's a pain, but I think it's necessary. I like the niches in the tank and how the fish swim around the current scape. I'm trying to find a balance between keeping it simple and enjoying the tank - I don't think I'd enjoy it as much with a bare bottom. Using a grow-out tank would be ideal for getting the largest discus, but I'm happy as long as mine are healthy and not stunted. I'll probably stick with the current setup for now and consider simplifying later. I know discus live in blackwater in the Amazon with lots of leaves and tree branches, but I'm not sure I could pull off a blackwater tank. Has anyone here tried a blackwater tank with discus? I'll post a pic of my tank soon and would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Elliot. I checked out your 150 planted tank and it looked great. I used to have crypts and jungle vals in the back, but they're gone now - the vals melted, and I didn't even realize they weren't dead at first. I've replaced them with two large amazon swords in the corners and various anubias and java fern attached to driftwood. I do a deep clean every week, which involves moving all the decorations and siphoning the sand - it's a pain, but I think it's necessary. I like the niches in the tank and how the fish swim around the current scape. I'm trying to find a balance between keeping it simple and enjoying the tank - I don't think I'd enjoy it as much with a bare bottom. Using a grow-out tank would be ideal for getting the largest discus, but I'm happy as long as mine are healthy and not stunted. I'll probably stick with the current setup for now and consider simplifying later. I know discus live in blackwater in the Amazon with lots of leaves and tree branches, but I'm not sure I could pull off a blackwater tank. Has anyone here tried a blackwater tank with discus? I'll post a pic of my tank soon and would love to hear your thoughts.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
Honestly, unless you're working with wild-caught discus, these fish are so far removed from their natural Amazonian habitat. If you truly wanted to replicate their environment, it would be a bare-bottom tank, possibly with a breeding cone - that's about it.
Honestly, unless you're working with wild-caught discus, these fish are so far removed from their natural Amazonian habitat. If you truly wanted to replicate their environment, it would be a bare-bottom tank, possibly with a breeding cone - that's about it.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
Thanks for the honest take, lunar. I've got domesticated discus, so I'm not trying to replicate their exact natural habitat. Still, I appreciate the insight - a bare bottom tank with a breeding cone would be a pretty drastic change from what I've got now.
Thanks for the honest take, lunar. I've got domesticated discus, so I'm not trying to replicate their exact natural habitat. Still, I appreciate the insight - a bare bottom tank with a breeding cone would be a pretty drastic change from what I've got now.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
Mike, I feel you on the videos - I love the contrast of discus with different green tones too. Those wild discus habitats do have a lot of foliage, but it's usually flooded areas with trees and plants still intact. I don't feel too guilty about my setup, haha. My wife won't let me have a massive tank, so I'll just have to settle for a smaller one.
I'm with you on not stressing about growing huge fish. I just thought I'd mention it since I've been experimenting with my own setup lately. Now that I have my own garage, I've got my own "me place" where I can do whatever I want. I can blast Dr. Dre or AC/DC, work on my projects, or even set up a grow-out pond.
You seem to be a pro at vacuuming - I had a tough time keeping my val and swords clean. I've been trying to find a balance between a lush setup and easy maintenance. I think it's doable, but I might have just gotten lucky with my previous setup. Keep us posted on your progress, and let's keep this thread going for years to come!
Mike, I feel you on the videos - I love the contrast of discus with different green tones too. Those wild discus habitats do have a lot of foliage, but it's usually flooded areas with trees and plants still intact. I don't feel too guilty about my setup, haha. My wife won't let me have a massive tank, so I'll just have to settle for a smaller one.
I'm with you on not stressing about growing huge fish. I just thought I'd mention it since I've been experimenting with my own setup lately. Now that I have my own garage, I've got my own "me place" where I can do whatever I want. I can blast Dr. Dre or AC/DC, work on my projects, or even set up a grow-out pond.
You seem to be a pro at vacuuming - I had a tough time keeping my val and swords clean. I've been trying to find a balance between a lush setup and easy maintenance. I think it's doable, but I might have just gotten lucky with my previous setup. Keep us posted on your progress, and let's keep this thread going for years to come!
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
Mike, I'm with you on enjoying the aquascaping process. I like experimenting with different layouts and seeing how they affect the fish's behavior. However, discus can be quite particular about their environment. The gravel does tend to trap more debris, which means more frequent cleaning. As for the fish themselves, they can be quite finicky. I'm not interested in breeding them, I just want to enjoy watching them thrive in their environment. So, I say, set up your tank in a way that brings you joy. If that means a lot of decorations or a minimalist approach, it's all about personal preference.
Elliot, I have to chuckle at the image of you singing and dancing to Dirty Dancing in your garage. As long as the fish aren't too stressed out by your antics, go for it.
Mike, I'm with you on enjoying the aquascaping process. I like experimenting with different layouts and seeing how they affect the fish's behavior. However, discus can be quite particular about their environment. The gravel does tend to trap more debris, which means more frequent cleaning. As for the fish themselves, they can be quite finicky. I'm not interested in breeding them, I just want to enjoy watching them thrive in their environment. So, I say, set up your tank in a way that brings you joy. If that means a lot of decorations or a minimalist approach, it's all about personal preference.
Elliot, I have to chuckle at the image of you singing and dancing to Dirty Dancing in your garage. As long as the fish aren't too stressed out by your antics, go for it.
Re: Aquascape question
Re: Aquascape question
LMAO, I'm guilty of carrying on a family tradition - my dad used to make us sing along to the cheesiest tunes in the car when we were stationed in Germany. I think he just enjoyed hazing us kids, but hey, it's a funny memory now. He'd always make me, the youngest, sing the girl part in those duets, like "...baaaaa-bie, my SWEeeeet baaaa-bie... YOU'RE THE ONE...".
Now, I'm paying it forward with my own boys - they love belting out "You LOST that LOOOOVING FEELING..." at the top of their lungs, along with some Top Gun classics. They're totally into it, and I'm happy to share the joy (and embarrassment) with them.
LMAO, I'm guilty of carrying on a family tradition - my dad used to make us sing along to the cheesiest tunes in the car when we were stationed in Germany. I think he just enjoyed hazing us kids, but hey, it's a funny memory now. He'd always make me, the youngest, sing the girl part in those duets, like "...baaaaa-bie, my SWEeeeet baaaa-bie... YOU'RE THE ONE...".
Now, I'm paying it forward with my own boys - they love belting out "You LOST that LOOOOVING FEELING..." at the top of their lungs, along with some Top Gun classics. They're totally into it, and I'm happy to share the joy (and embarrassment) with them.