German and Asian
German and Asian
Stendker says their discus shouldn't be kept with Asian fish. Here's the reason: "Stendker Discus Fish should not be kept with Asian offspring, even with compatible BU. If you do, either Stendker's advantages (easy care, low maintenance, 30% water change weekly, suitable for beginners) are lost under Asian conditions, or Asian discus under European conditions lose life expectancy." What do you think? Is this really true?
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
That image isn't suitable for this site. Not cool.
That image isn't suitable for this site. Not cool.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
Originally posted by Deepsea
Dude that image was completely out of line for this site. Removed it, my bad.
Originally posted by Deepsea
Dude that image was completely out of line for this site. Removed it, my bad.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
Stendker breeders have earned their expertise, and we should give their opinions serious thought. When you have two different fish strains that have evolved over years through selective breeding, it's only logical they'd have distinct needs. Take polar bears and grizzly bears - both are bears, but they thrive in vastly different environments. It's not hard to imagine the same principle applying to discus, with Asian and European varieties being bred for different strengths. Would we even consider breeding a polar bear with a grizzly and a brown bear? Where would such a bear call home, and how would its offspring fare in terms of survival? Stendker's discus were carefully developed for a specific advantage - they're the beginner's discus, after all. Some real thought went into creating them. Asian discus, on the other hand, seem to have been bred for mass production, with less regard for their unique needs. According to Stendker, their suggestion makes sense to me - these aren't the same discus we're talking about.
Stendker breeders have earned their expertise, and we should give their opinions serious thought. When you have two different fish strains that have evolved over years through selective breeding, it's only logical they'd have distinct needs. Take polar bears and grizzly bears - both are bears, but they thrive in vastly different environments. It's not hard to imagine the same principle applying to discus, with Asian and European varieties being bred for different strengths. Would we even consider breeding a polar bear with a grizzly and a brown bear? Where would such a bear call home, and how would its offspring fare in terms of survival? Stendker's discus were carefully developed for a specific advantage - they're the beginner's discus, after all. Some real thought went into creating them. Asian discus, on the other hand, seem to have been bred for mass production, with less regard for their unique needs. According to Stendker, their suggestion makes sense to me - these aren't the same discus we're talking about.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
Most people avoid mixing Asian and German discus due to differing pathogens in their native environments, which can lead to issues since neither has developed resistance to the other's pathogens. A friend of mine had a similar concern with Koi, but found that treating both fish with formalin for 3 days beforehand significantly reduces the risk of problems.
Most people avoid mixing Asian and German discus due to differing pathogens in their native environments, which can lead to issues since neither has developed resistance to the other's pathogens. A friend of mine had a similar concern with Koi, but found that treating both fish with formalin for 3 days beforehand significantly reduces the risk of problems.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
If we can't mix German with Asian, then the same logic applies to mixing wilds and domestics. It's just common sense. People have successfully mixed German, Asian, and wilds before, despite the potential risks. You can have compatibility issues, yes, but that's where proper QT procedures and healthy stock come in – a hero fish can be a lifesaver. And let's be real, Stendker's statement sounds like a clever marketing move to me.
If we can't mix German with Asian, then the same logic applies to mixing wilds and domestics. It's just common sense. People have successfully mixed German, Asian, and wilds before, despite the potential risks. You can have compatibility issues, yes, but that's where proper QT procedures and healthy stock come in – a hero fish can be a lifesaver. And let's be real, Stendker's statement sounds like a clever marketing move to me.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
I've switched to German discus recently. No plans to mix with Asian. Don't see the point of taking unnecessary risks. Disease, medications - it's just not worth it. Discus thrive in stable conditions, that's what I'm aiming for.
I've switched to German discus recently. No plans to mix with Asian. Don't see the point of taking unnecessary risks. Disease, medications - it's just not worth it. Discus thrive in stable conditions, that's what I'm aiming for.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
I've had Stendkers and Asian discus together in my tanks for years, long before I came across this statement. To be honest, I'm still unsure what exactly Stendker means by "Asian keeping conditions" versus "European keeping conditions." It's worth noting that many of the desirable traits in Stendker discus, such as spotted, fineline snakeskin, and pigeon bloods, originated from Asia in the first place.
I've had Stendkers and Asian discus together in my tanks for years, long before I came across this statement. To be honest, I'm still unsure what exactly Stendker means by "Asian keeping conditions" versus "European keeping conditions." It's worth noting that many of the desirable traits in Stendker discus, such as spotted, fineline snakeskin, and pigeon bloods, originated from Asia in the first place.
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
I'm no expert, been raising discus for just under a year, but I've had my fair share of both German and Asian fish. I'm with Pat on this one - good sales pitch by Stendker. I've made plenty of calls to breeders and distributors, and they all say the same thing: "If you're going to have problems, it'll show up in 4 days, and it only happens 20% of the time." Never had a problem mixing them myself.
But here's the thing: when I do have a fish die, it's always a German one. Not counting the crappy batch I got at the start, which were all bad from the get-go. I'm assuming they were all Asian? Not entirely sure.
Miranda's fish from CitySpin are Asian, and they're incredible. Never had a problem with them. My local fish store, Pet Supermarket, sells fish from Sun Pets in Florida - pretty sure they're Asian too. Never had a problem with those fish either. The girls at the store really know what they're doing.
I've had their fish for months now, and they're just as easy to care for as angelfish. I've got one German fish left, a Sapphire Blue, and it's not looking good. To me, they just don't have the same strong personality or will to live as the Asian fish. They're frail from the start, even if they look great when you buy them.
I've had three Stendker fish this year, and two of them have withered away over the past six months. This is with meds and 90% water changes every other day. Meanwhile, all my Asian fish are thriving in the same tanks.
I'm no expert, but I think the "don't mix" theory is just a myth. I think it's more about not mixing weak fish with strong ones. And by the way, I used to raise Koi fish in California for years, and I mixed both Asian and American fish without ever having a problem. Why would discus be any different?
I'm no expert, been raising discus for just under a year, but I've had my fair share of both German and Asian fish. I'm with Pat on this one - good sales pitch by Stendker. I've made plenty of calls to breeders and distributors, and they all say the same thing: "If you're going to have problems, it'll show up in 4 days, and it only happens 20% of the time." Never had a problem mixing them myself.
But here's the thing: when I do have a fish die, it's always a German one. Not counting the crappy batch I got at the start, which were all bad from the get-go. I'm assuming they were all Asian? Not entirely sure.
Miranda's fish from CitySpin are Asian, and they're incredible. Never had a problem with them. My local fish store, Pet Supermarket, sells fish from Sun Pets in Florida - pretty sure they're Asian too. Never had a problem with those fish either. The girls at the store really know what they're doing.
I've had their fish for months now, and they're just as easy to care for as angelfish. I've got one German fish left, a Sapphire Blue, and it's not looking good. To me, they just don't have the same strong personality or will to live as the Asian fish. They're frail from the start, even if they look great when you buy them.
I've had three Stendker fish this year, and two of them have withered away over the past six months. This is with meds and 90% water changes every other day. Meanwhile, all my Asian fish are thriving in the same tanks.
I'm no expert, but I think the "don't mix" theory is just a myth. I think it's more about not mixing weak fish with strong ones. And by the way, I used to raise Koi fish in California for years, and I mixed both Asian and American fish without ever having a problem. Why would discus be any different?
Re: German and Asian
Re: German and Asian
I think this is more marketing hype than real. The issue of cross contamination and novel pathogens is real and potentially lethal, but it also applies to Asian breeders who are geographically isolated from each other. Quarantine and prophylactic treatment can minimize the risk but never fully eliminate it.
This almost sounds like a speciation argument, where you're not supposed to mix two species with differing requirements unless you're willing to damage or kill one or the other. But who can define the difference between German tank conditions and Asian tank conditions? It's implied that German sourced discus tolerate less frequent water changes, but who would want to stress their fish as a routine? I mean, how much more NO3, or TDS, or ORP change can German discus tolerate? If it's not quantified, that's almost a worthless observation.
It's interesting to note that due to climate changes, the range of Brown and Polar bears have been overlapping progressively to a much greater degree over the last several years. Successful hybrids, including second generation hybrids, have been found in nature. Over time, this could lead to either a 3rd species or de-speciation where brown and polar bears ended up a single species.
I think this is more marketing hype than real. The issue of cross contamination and novel pathogens is real and potentially lethal, but it also applies to Asian breeders who are geographically isolated from each other. Quarantine and prophylactic treatment can minimize the risk but never fully eliminate it.
This almost sounds like a speciation argument, where you're not supposed to mix two species with differing requirements unless you're willing to damage or kill one or the other. But who can define the difference between German tank conditions and Asian tank conditions? It's implied that German sourced discus tolerate less frequent water changes, but who would want to stress their fish as a routine? I mean, how much more NO3, or TDS, or ORP change can German discus tolerate? If it's not quantified, that's almost a worthless observation.
It's interesting to note that due to climate changes, the range of Brown and Polar bears have been overlapping progressively to a much greater degree over the last several years. Successful hybrids, including second generation hybrids, have been found in nature. Over time, this could lead to either a 3rd species or de-speciation where brown and polar bears ended up a single species.