Is copper necessary for a betta?

[florapen]

Hi everyone,

I'm still reeling from the loss of my betta, Norbert, who passed away a few days ago. I'm pretty sure it was velvet, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it even got into his tank in the first place - they're all kept alone and I've had them since July. We did try treating him, but unfortunately, it was too late. I'm also questioning the effectiveness of Paraguard - it didn't seem to do much, and I'm starting to think that copper-based meds might be the way to go.

Now I'm worried that my other betta, Voldy, might have been exposed to velvet since they're right next to each other and I've been using the same equipment for maintenance. I'm getting a little paranoid, to be honest - every little color change is making me think it's velvet. But Voldy seems fine for now - he's active, eating well, and swimming normally.

My question is, should I start treating Voldy with Cupramine or something similar as a precautionary measure, even though he's not showing any symptoms yet? Is that overkill, or is it just being safe? I want to make sure I'm not missing anything and that my tank is completely velvet-free.

[whetu]

Copper's not something to be taken lightly, especially for us hobbyists. I've heard it's more suited for importers who have tight control over their setup, not for the average aquarist like us.

[coltin]

I've taken a look at the pictures of Voldy, and to be honest, I'm not seeing any signs of velvet parasites. Typically, you'd notice a yellow or gold sheen on the body and fins when you shine a light on the fish, especially after dark. Since I'm not seeing that, I'm inclined to think Voldy might be okay.

Another thing to consider is that fish with velvet usually exhibit rubbing behavior on objects in the tank. If Voldy isn't doing that, it's likely he doesn't have velvet.

Using copper is an option, but I'd advise against it unless you're certain the fish has a disease. Otherwise, you're just exposing Voldy to unnecessary chemicals.

A more natural approach might be to try heat treatment. Raising the tank temperature to 30C for a couple of weeks can be effective in killing velvet parasites, similar to how it works for white spot.

[florapen]

I've taken a look at the pictures of Voldy, and to be honest, I'm not seeing any signs of velvet parasites. Typically, you'd notice a yellow or gold sheen on the body and fins when you shine a light on the fish, especially after dark. Since I'm not seeing that, I'm inclined to think Voldy might be okay.

Another thing to consider is that fish with velvet usually exhibit rubbing behavior on objects in the tank. If Voldy isn't doing that, it's likely he doesn't have velvet.

Using copper is an option, but I'd advise against it unless you're certain the fish has a disease. Otherwise, you're just exposing Voldy to unnecessary chemicals.

A more natural approach might be to try heat treatment. Raising the tank temperature to 30C for a couple of weeks can be effective in killing velvet parasites, similar to how it works for white spot.

Thanks for the input - I appreciate it.

I'm still keeping a close eye on Voldy, as you can imagine. I also have another question - what are your thoughts on using salt in aquarium maintenance? I know it can be helpful for recovery, but I've heard mixed opinions about using it as a regular part of maintenance. Locally, some breeders swear by adding it alongside a catappa leaf, without even checking the parameters. Do you think it's worth using as a preventative measure, or should it be reserved for when issues arise? I'm considering giving it a try, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[coltin]

I'm of the opinion that salt should only be used in aquarium maintenance when treating a specific disease in freshwater fish, or if you're working with brackish water species. Adding it as a standard practice isn't something I'd recommend. If you do need to use salt, it's best to limit the duration to around 2-4 weeks, as prolonged exposure can cause kidney damage in fish. Some species like livebearers, goldfish, and rainbowfish can tolerate salt for longer periods, but for most others, it's best to reserve salt treatment for when they're actually sick.

[graye]

I'm not a fan of copper, despite its effectiveness. The issue is, it lingers and is nearly impossible to remove. There's also evidence linking it to infertility in some fish. I'm not averse to using chemicals, but I prefer to have control over their removal.

Catappa leaves and salt have opposing effects, so combining them seems counterintuitive. I prefer using Catappa leaves, as they provide a more natural approach. Salt, like copper and flour, is difficult to remove, so I only use it when absolutely necessary.

Velvet is a challenging parasite to deal with. As a killie keeper, I'm constantly on the lookout for it. I believe it's always present, waiting to hitch a ride into our tanks on a fish, plant, or other means. Our fish can usually control it, but we can inadvertently create an environment that allows it to thrive.

We cultivate velvet by providing moderate lighting, slow-moving acidic water, and decaying mulm. Overfeeding and neglecting regular water changes can also contribute to its growth. It's a silent killer, often unseen until it's too late.

Breeders may use salt to combat velvet, but I prefer a more targeted approach. Outbreaks can be managed with a combination of treatments, such as malachite green formalin mixes or acriflavene, but these must be used judiciously. The key is maintaining a clean tank, removing debris, and avoiding overfeeding.

I recall a time when research suggested velvet photosynthesized like plants, leading some to believe that darkness could kill it. This idea was later extended to Ich, but it was a misguided notion. Darkness may slow velvet's growth, but it won't eradicate it. Ich is a different organism altogether.

The medications that work against velvet are harsh on our fish, but the parasite is even harsher. We should only use these medications when we've identified the problem directly, not as a precautionary measure.

[florapen]

I'm not a fan of copper, despite its effectiveness. The issue is, it lingers and is nearly impossible to remove. There's also evidence linking it to infertility in some fish. I'm not averse to using chemicals, but I prefer to have control over their removal.

Catappa leaves and salt have opposing effects, so combining them seems counterintuitive. I prefer using Catappa leaves, as they provide a more natural approach. Salt, like copper and flour, is difficult to remove, so I only use it when absolutely necessary.

Velvet is a challenging parasite to deal with. As a killie keeper, I'm constantly on the lookout for it. I believe it's always present, waiting to hitch a ride into our tanks on a fish, plant, or other means. Our fish can usually control it, but we can inadvertently create an environment that allows it to thrive.

We cultivate velvet by providing moderate lighting, slow-moving acidic water, and decaying mulm. Overfeeding and neglecting regular water changes can also contribute to its growth. It's a silent killer, often unseen until it's too late.

Breeders may use salt to combat velvet, but I prefer a more targeted approach. Outbreaks can be managed with a combination of treatments, such as malachite green formalin mixes or acriflavene, but these must be used judiciously. The key is maintaining a clean tank, removing debris, and avoiding overfeeding.

I recall a time when research suggested velvet photosynthesized like plants, leading some to believe that darkness could kill it. This idea was later extended to Ich, but it was a misguided notion. Darkness may slow velvet's growth, but it won't eradicate it. Ich is a different organism altogether.

The medications that work against velvet are harsh on our fish, but the parasite is even harsher. We should only use these medications when we've identified the problem directly, not as a precautionary measure.

I've been thinking about the lifecycle of velvet and ich, and how they rely on a host to survive. It seems to me that if you leave a tank empty for a week or so, the pre-existing water-occupying stages of the parasite should die off due to lack of a host.

Considering the lifecycle, when trophonts let go of the fish to become tomonts and come into contact with medication upon exiting the fish's epithelium, they should die. This means their offspring can't cycle back as trophonts again. In theory, this should allow for eradication, assuming no new organisms are introduced to the tank via other fish or droplets, and medication is continuous to prevent new theronts from attaching to the fish and restarting the cycle.

Isn't this the case? I'm trying to understand if there are indeed "organisms in waiting" as long as you've decimated them all.

[graye]

I've been dealing with velvet for years, and I still have more to learn. Unlike Ich, which we both seem to understand pretty well, velvet operates differently. I've managed to eliminate it, only to have it come back 5-6 years later. It's like it's waiting for the perfect moment to strike. I've seen it affect one species while leaving others alone, and I'm convinced it gets back in through introduced fish. But once it's in, it's a real challenge to get rid of.

I've been talking to keepers of annual killifish, and they have a real problem with velvet when their fish hatch in large numbers. The parasite seems to appear out of nowhere, attacking the fry. I've never really looked into how it manages to do this, but it's clear that it's a resilient little thing. They store eggs in peat for months, and yet soon after hatching, velvet is present. It's like it's just waiting for the right conditions to thrive.

I think part of the problem is that our remedies might not be as effective as we think. We might be decimating the parasite, but not eliminating it entirely. We think it's gone, but it's not as obvious as Ich. It may be that it's just hanging on, waiting for the perfect moment to strike again. So, how do we eliminate it without harming the fish? If our meds were harmless, I'd be all for preventative treatment. But we're working with primitive tools - poisons like copper that can do more harm than good.

It's interesting to note that older aquarium books were really concerned with velvet, but modern aquarists don't seem to be. I think it's because we're dealing with a durable little parasite that's adapted to our aquariums. As someone who keeps killies and you keep show Bettas, we're more likely to encounter this problem. We're dealing with slow, lightly filtered water that's perfect for velvet to thrive in.

[florapen]

I'm not a fan of copper, despite its effectiveness. The issue is, it lingers and is nearly impossible to remove. There's also evidence linking it to infertility in some fish. I'm not averse to using chemicals, but I prefer to have control over their removal.

Catappa leaves and salt have opposing effects, so combining them seems counterintuitive. I prefer using Catappa leaves, as they provide a more natural approach. Salt, like copper and flour, is difficult to remove, so I only use it when absolutely necessary.

Velvet is a challenging parasite to deal with. As a killie keeper, I'm constantly on the lookout for it. I believe it's always present, waiting to hitch a ride into our tanks on a fish, plant, or other means. Our fish can usually control it, but we can inadvertently create an environment that allows it to thrive.

We cultivate velvet by providing moderate lighting, slow-moving acidic water, and decaying mulm. Overfeeding and neglecting regular water changes can also contribute to its growth. It's a silent killer, often unseen until it's too late.

Breeders may use salt to combat velvet, but I prefer a more targeted approach. Outbreaks can be managed with a combination of treatments, such as malachite green formalin mixes or acriflavene, but these must be used judiciously. The key is maintaining a clean tank, removing debris, and avoiding overfeeding.

I recall a time when research suggested velvet photosynthesized like plants, leading some to believe that darkness could kill it. This idea was later extended to Ich, but it was a misguided notion. Darkness may slow velvet's growth, but it won't eradicate it. Ich is a different organism altogether.

The medications that work against velvet are harsh on our fish, but the parasite is even harsher. We should only use these medications when we've identified the problem directly, not as a precautionary measure.

I'm seriously considering two options now - either I keep my bettas in a completely bare tank, pre-bleached and rinsed to prevent any velvet cysts from lingering in the substrate, or I implement a regular preventative treatment. I'm thinking of a 2-week malachite green and aldehyde treatment every 6-12 months to keep the parasite under control, on top of my regular water changes.

It's unsettling to think about, but as a pet owner, whether it's a furry, feathered, or finned friend, I always get stressed when one of them is sick.

[coltin]

Hi everyone,

I'm still reeling from the loss of my betta, Norbert, who passed away a few days ago. I'm pretty sure it was velvet, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it even got into his tank in the first place - they're all kept alone and I've had them since July. We did try treating him, but unfortunately, it was too late. I'm also questioning the effectiveness of Paraguard - it didn't seem to do much, and I'm starting to think that copper-based meds might be the way to go.

Now I'm worried that my other betta, Voldy, might have been exposed to velvet since they're right next to each other and I've been using the same equipment for maintenance. I'm getting a little paranoid, to be honest - every little color change is making me think it's velvet. But Voldy seems fine for now - he's active, eating well, and swimming normally.

My question is, should I start treating Voldy with Cupramine or something similar as a precautionary measure, even though he's not showing any symptoms yet? Is that overkill, or is it just being safe? I want to make sure I'm not missing anything and that my tank is completely velvet-free.

You wouldn't take your dog to the vet just for the sake of it, would you? Fish are no different. Their immune system's capable of fighting off a lot of diseases if you keep their environment clean and provide a balanced diet. Chemical medications should only be used when there's a visible problem.

Velvet's not something I've come across often in my 40 years of keeping fish. Only seen it twice, and that's despite working with fish for 20 years in pet shops and quarantine facilities. I've heard killifish breeders have had issues with it, but I never had a problem in my own killifish tanks. It's possible that velvet can go dormant in peat and get transferred around with eggs and peat, but that's just speculation.