managing cichlid populations

[nordix]

Hi there,

I've recently started introducing peacock cichlids to my aquarium, having had a change of heart about keeping oscars.

Initially, I thought the same rule would apply - a maximum of two, considering the size of my 450L tank.

However, I came across a claim that territorial African cichlids actually prefer a large group of tank mates, which supposedly helps them feel more at ease. I've heard numbers as high as 30+, which seems rather unusual.

What do you think is the ideal and maximum number of cichlids I could keep in my tank?

Cheers

[willie32]

I've recently been working on a similar plan for my 300 litre tank, which is slightly smaller than yours. Having kept American cichlids for a while, I'm new to Africans and currently my knowledge is based on reading.

I'm leaning towards keeping Mbuna in my tank, but I had considered an all-male Peacock and Hap tank, with the following species: Aulonocara Stuartgranti - Ngara Flametail, Aulonocara Rubescens - Ruby Red, Aulonocara Maulana - Bi-Color 500, Aulonocara sp. Stuartgranti "Maleri" Sunshine, Aulonocara Usisya, Aulonocara Turkis, Copadichromis Trewavasae Mloto Likoma, Copadichromis Azureus, Otopharynx Tetrastigma or Otopharynx Lithobates Red Blaze, Protomelas Marginatus, and Placidochromis Electra.

While this might be the maximum for my tank, you could potentially add a group of Yellow Labs to increase the numbers. OB's and some hybrid species are nice but can be unpredictable in terms of aggression, and some of the Peacocks on this list are on the more timid side. However, I've been told that with Peacocks, there's nothing really predictable, so it's essential to have a backup plan, such as spare tanks, dividers, or boxes, and the patience to try different things.

I've also been advised to add new fish in bigger numbers, ideally 4-6 at a time, rather than one or two, as this reduces the likelihood of the new fish being picked on.

[sidthy]

To be honest, I'm not exactly an expert on Rifts, but I can confirm that yes, it's true - and it does seem odd at first. It's not that they have a preference for being in large groups, it's more about preventing their natural territorial behavior from taking over. See, in their natural habitat, they'd claim a specific spot among the rocks and be extremely aggressive about defending it - kind of like how you'd protect your own home.

By overcrowding them, we're essentially making it pointless for them to try and push others away, as there are just too many fish in a small space. The more natural approach would be to stock just a few in a massive tank, similar to their lake environment, but let's be real, that would make for a pretty dull tank for most people.

[willie32]

To be honest, I'm not exactly an expert on Rifts, but I can confirm that yes, it's true - and it does seem odd at first. It's not that they have a preference for being in large groups, it's more about preventing their natural territorial behavior from taking over. See, in their natural habitat, they'd claim a specific spot among the rocks and be extremely aggressive about defending it - kind of like how you'd protect your own home.

By overcrowding them, we're essentially making it pointless for them to try and push others away, as there are just too many fish in a small space. The more natural approach would be to stock just a few in a massive tank, similar to their lake environment, but let's be real, that would make for a pretty dull tank for most people.

They're incredibly densely packed in the wild, especially the Mbuna, which is what you're describing with the rock-dwelling behavior. Population density can fluctuate greatly, but at times you'll find thousands of them within a small area.

In contrast, peacocks and haps are open-water swimmers, so their territorial behavior is different. Their aggression is more driven by competition for food and breeding, rather than defending specific territories. Overstocking them based on traditional aquarium numbers can be seen as a more natural approach, similar to how we'd stock a larger school of characins.

It's undeniable that owner preferences play a role in the way we keep Africans, given their cosmetic appeal, especially with hybrids. However, as long as we prioritize fish welfare, I believe some established techniques for keeping them can be considered responsible and humane. My experience so far suggests that the Rift community has different standards than other areas of the hobby, which can make some advice and practices unclear. This actually influenced my decision to go with Mbuna over peacocks, as their dense populations are more in line with their natural behavior. Some species are more suited to this than others, and I prefer to keep clear, defined species, which is common in the hobby. In contrast, peacocks, while distinct in science, are often sold as mixed peacocks, making their lineage unclear.

[graye]

Mbuna are pretty atypical cichlids, but here's something to consider. They're very densely packed in the wild, especially the Mbuna, which live in the rocks, right? Population density fluctuates a lot in the wild, but at times there are thousands within a few meters.

That being said, peacocks and haps are different as they're open water swimmers, so they don't claim territories in the same way. Their aggression is more based on rivals for eating and breeding, not so much territories. Overstocking the numbers on traditional aquarium numbers is reasonably natural for them, similar to how we would break stocking levels for a bigger school of characins.

Undoubtedly, some 'owner preferences' are put on Africans as they're a very cosmetic species, especially with all the hybrids. However, I think as long as we keep fish welfare as our main aim, some of the proven techniques to keep them are responsible and humane. But, in my experience so far, the rift community has different standards than some other areas of the hobby, which does trouble me a bit. It makes some advice and practices a bit murky to understand. That's what made me go for Mbuna over peacocks, as that dense population really is natural for them, some species more than others. Clear defined species are very common in the hobby, whereas peacocks, while distinct in science, are often sold in tanks labeled mixed peacocks, and their lineage will be muddy to say the least.

[nordix]

Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it. I'm still leaning towards peacocks for now, but you never know, I might change my mind down the line.

[willie32]

Mbuna are pretty atypical cichlids, but here's something to consider. They're very densely packed in the wild, especially the Mbuna, which live in the rocks, right? Population density fluctuates a lot in the wild, but at times there are thousands within a few meters.

That being said, peacocks and haps are different as they're open water swimmers, so they don't claim territories in the same way. Their aggression is more based on rivals for eating and breeding, not so much territories. Overstocking the numbers on traditional aquarium numbers is reasonably natural for them, similar to how we would break stocking levels for a bigger school of characins.

Undoubtedly, some 'owner preferences' are put on Africans as they're a very cosmetic species, especially with all the hybrids. However, I think as long as we keep fish welfare as our main aim, some of the proven techniques to keep them are responsible and humane. But, in my experience so far, the rift community has different standards than some other areas of the hobby, which does trouble me a bit. It makes some advice and practices a bit murky to understand. That's what made me go for Mbuna over peacocks, as that dense population really is natural for them, some species more than others. Clear defined species are very common in the hobby, whereas peacocks, while distinct in science, are often sold in tanks labeled mixed peacocks, and their lineage will be muddy to say the least.

nordix said:

Thanks all! I think I'm sticking with peacocks at the moment, but this may change!

Great choice, peacocks are indeed amazing. Hybrid or specific species, which way are you leaning?

[nordix]

I've no idea how to identify the ones I've got, to be honest. I'm assuming these are OB peacocks, and I'm pretty sure they're male. I've been wondering if they're hybrids, but I'm not entirely sure. I've been considering tracking down some specific species, like the blue/blue neon, German red, or ruby reds - I've heard they're quite vibrant. The thing is, I have no idea which ones are the most vibrant, so any advice would be great.