Page 1 of 1
confused about the situation
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:04 pm
by reefzone
I've had my 40 gallon breeder tank fully cycled for a while now, housing 38 babies from when they were taken from their mother to now, around 2.5 inches in size, some smaller, some larger. They were doing great, transferred from another tank, and I only lost maybe 2 or 3 in 6 months. Recently, I got 11 new cichlids from Tampa Bay Cichlids, all different species, about 1-2 inches in size, to grow out and eventually move to my 90 gallon all-male show tank. I moved the 38 to my 120 gallon tank and put the new ones in the 40 gallon breeder.
First two weeks, all was good, they were eating fine, no issues. Then I lost my first fish. Over the last three weeks, I've been losing one a week, and one week I lost two. My ammonia levels are 0 or close to it, nitrates are 40-80, but I'm stuck with that since my tap water comes out at 80. My other tanks, 6 in total, use the same tap water and rarely have deaths this frequent - 120 gallon with 2-3 inch deep water haps, one German red, one OB peacock, 90 gallon show tank with all 5-8 inch mature males, another 120 gallon with a marble cat and 3 gars, and a 29 gallon bow with 10 glow barbs.
The only difference with this 40 breeder is I've got a DIY setup with a pathos plant above the tank to try to reduce nitrates, but it only helps a little. This setup was here before with the 38 babies and didn't cause any issues. Any ideas on these random deaths?
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:48 pm
by reefzone
The tank in question and the DIY setup I've got going on - so this 40 gallon breeder's been cycled, housed the 38 babies initially, and now it's the 11 new ones. I've had this DIY pathos plant setup above the tank for a bit, trying to bring down the nitrates, but it's only done a little.
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:08 pm
by coltin
To break it down, you've had a bunch of random fish deaths in your 40 gallon breeder tank with 11 new cichlids, and you're trying to figure out why. You've already checked the water parameters and they seem fine, aside from the nitrates which are a bit high due to your tap water.
If you've got sick fish, it'd be super helpful to see some pics. Maybe we can spot something going on that's causing the deaths.
I'd recommend looking into filters that can remove nitrates from your tap water. I've heard of the Pozzani filter, and you can find info on it here or online. Reverse Osmosis units might also be an option, but I've heard they waste a lot of water. Another thing you could try is setting up a large container with plants to help absorb the nitrates from the tap water. Once the nitrates are gone, you can use that water for water changes.
You should also think about contacting your local health department about the high nitrate levels in your tap water. It's not just bad for your fish - it's also a health risk for you and any other animals that drink the water. You might want to consider drinking bottled water until the issue is resolved.
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 1:26 am
by reefzone
coltin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:08 pm
To break it down, you've had a bunch of random fish deaths in your 40 gallon breeder tank with 11 new cichlids, and you're trying to figure out why. You've already checked the water parameters and they seem fine, aside from the nitrates which are a bit high due to your tap water.
If you've got sick fish, it'd be super helpful to see some pics. Maybe we can spot something going on that's causing the deaths.
I'd recommend looking into filters that can remove nitrates from your tap water. I've heard of the Pozzani filter, and you can find info on it here or online. Reverse Osmosis units might also be an option, but I've heard they waste a lot of water. Another thing you could try is setting up a large container with plants to help absorb the nitrates from the tap water. Once the nitrates are gone, you can use that water for water changes.
You should also think about contacting your local health department about the high nitrate levels in your tap water. It's not just bad for your fish - it's also a health risk for you and any other animals that drink the water. You might want to consider drinking bottled water until the issue is resolved.
Thanks for the quick response. To sum it up, I've got new fish randomly dying for no apparent reason. I'm wondering if anyone's ever heard of DIY aquaponics setups leaching something that could cause these deaths. As for the tap water nitrates, I've already contacted my local water supply and the mayor, had them investigate and run tests. They told me those levels are within the legal limits, not toxic. Just a side note, I don't drink the tap water anyway, I stick to bottled water.
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 4:31 am
by coltin
I'm not buying the whole 'it's within legal limits' thing, especially since other countries have much stricter nitrate limits. I'd still be concerned about the tap water quality, even if the mayor says it's fine.
Can you tell me more about the growing medium in your DIY aquaponics setup? Is it something like grow wool or ceramic beads, or are you using potting mix? I've heard potting mix can leach stuff into the tank water, which could be causing problems.
My gut feeling is that high nitrates might be the culprit, but it's also possible that the fish have picked up a disease. What kind of symptoms are you seeing in the fish before they die? Are they showing any signs of illness or stress? And what do they look like when they die? Any visible signs of disease or injury? If you can post some pictures, I'd love to take a look and see if I can spot anything.
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 2:38 pm
by sSjey
I dug up some info on the US EPA website and it looks like the upper limit for nitrates in drinking water is 10 ppm nitrate-N, or 44.268 ppm nitrate-NO3 if you convert it. That's roughly the same as the UK's upper limit of 50 ppm nitrate-NO3.
Interestingly, this means your tap water reading of 80 ppm nitrate-NO3 is actually double the upper limit allowed in the US. I'm starting to think that might be the culprit behind your fish deaths, despite what your local authorities say about it being within legal limits.
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:11 pm
by reefzone
So I called my water company again today and they assured me that the nitrate levels are within the legal limits. I asked them to come and test my tap water as I did six readings with two different kits, just to make sure I wasn't the one at fault. The readings all came in between 40 and 80 ppm. They told me that the kits we use aren't a reliable means of measuring, and that they would need to send a sample of my water to the lab to verify my figures. However, they said I'd have to do it at my own expense.
I then called the lab they referred me to, and was told that the test starts at $599 and goes up from there. So I'm in a bit of a bind at the moment. I also called the health department, but was transferred to a voicemail that said I'd receive a call back. Six hours later, I still haven't received a call back, unfortunately.
Re: confused about the situation
Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:13 pm
by angelica
reefzone wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:04 pm
I've had my 40 gallon breeder tank fully cycled for a while now, housing 38 babies from when they were taken from their mother to now, around 2.5 inches in size, some smaller, some larger. They were doing great, transferred from another tank, and I only lost maybe 2 or 3 in 6 months. Recently, I got 11 new cichlids from Tampa Bay Cichlids, all different species, about 1-2 inches in size, to grow out and eventually move to my 90 gallon all-male show tank. I moved the 38 to my 120 gallon tank and put the new ones in the 40 gallon breeder.
First two weeks, all was good, they were eating fine, no issues. Then I lost my first fish. Over the last three weeks, I've been losing one a week, and one week I lost two. My ammonia levels are 0 or close to it, nitrates are 40-80, but I'm stuck with that since my tap water comes out at 80. My other tanks, 6 in total, use the same tap water and rarely have deaths this frequent - 120 gallon with 2-3 inch deep water haps, one German red, one OB peacock, 90 gallon show tank with all 5-8 inch mature males, another 120 gallon with a marble cat and 3 gars, and a 29 gallon bow with 10 glow barbs.
The only difference with this 40 breeder is I've got a DIY setup with a pathos plant above the tank to try to reduce nitrates, but it only helps a little. This setup was here before with the 38 babies and didn't cause any issues. Any ideas on these random deaths?
It seems likely that they're operating within the legal limit, barely. My own water supplier maintains a level of 50ppm, which is probably the minimum required to avoid any issues. Given that our water is sourced from the ground, I'd imagine the natural levels are higher, but they're clearly only doing the bare minimum to stay compliant.