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angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:40 pm
by oceanix
I've had six angelfish in my 55-gallon tank for almost a year now, and I still have no idea what their genders are. They haven't shown any signs of breeding, and I know it's nearly impossible to sex them based on appearance.
They're all pretty chill, for the most part. One of them is a bit feistier than the others - it's more likely to chase the others and nips at my fingers when I stick them in the tank. I just did it a few minutes ago, and it managed to scratch my skin slightly (it was going for my knuckle hair). I'm hesitant to call it aggressive, but based on what I've read, I'm guessing that one might be female.
I bought them when they were already pretty old, so they didn't grow up together. By now, I was expecting some kind of territorial war to break out, but it's been surprisingly peaceful. I know things can change as they mature, but it's been weirdly calm so far.
My luck is basically nonexistent, so I doubt I somehow managed to get all males by chance. I'm just curious - is there anything else I should know about keeping them? Are there any notable differences in behavior between males and females?
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:03 pm
by Snout
If you're still stumped, try posting some pics of the fish - I've read the forehead shape can be a bit different between males and females.
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:45 pm
by sidthy
Honestly, I've found that the books are pretty spot on - you really can't sex domestic angelfish by shape alone. If you've got a group that's been raised together, you might be able to make a decent guess from their ventral profile. As for me, I've been keeping an eye on mine, and I've noticed that the one I think might be female has a consistently plumper belly than the others.
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:43 am
by BadgersSong
I think six angelfish in a 55 gallon is quite a tight squeeze. They do enjoy being in groups, but having space to retreat is crucial for them. Given their intelligence and varying personalities, it's possible you've just got a laid-back bunch. Still, it's essential to be prepared for things to take a turn for the worse in a relatively small tank like this. I'd recommend having a plan in place to rehome the more aggressive individuals if needed.
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:45 am
by discuslove
I'd say with six angels, it's almost a given you'll end up with at least one pair - the stats are against you, with a 97.6 percent chance of it happening. Just be patient, it'll likely take some time. Angels can get pretty territorial, and you'll probably see one of them claiming a spot and keeping the others at bay. When a pair does form, they'll likely pick a spot and defend it against the others, keeping them to one end of the tank. Their behavior will be pretty obvious when this happens. And just to clarify, the whole 'males have a hump on their head' thing isn't always true, so you can't rely on that to sex them.
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:51 am
by oceanix
Just had the most interesting thing happen today. I decided to try out some new cichlid pellets - Hikari Cichlid Gold - on my angels, figuring they're cichlids too, right? And one of them suddenly turned super possessive. It started chasing away two of the others, but only those two, whenever they'd try to eat. What really caught my attention was that it was the smallest one doing the chasing, and it was targeting the two biggest angels. And here's the kicker - it wasn't the one I mentioned being more aggressive in my initial post. I'm curious, is this kind of behavior normal?
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:48 am
by thenoob
Be aware that the dynamics can shift as they mature. Males tend to bicker but rarely cause harm, whereas females often dictate the hierarchy. It's a gamble - sometimes they'll coexist peacefully, while other times they'll turn on each other. My experience with a 4-foot tank is that having more than two angels, especially with a female, can lead to chaos; an 8-foot tank might be more manageable, depending on the female's aggression level. You can usually disregard male squabbles, but females are a different story - they can be deadly. If you notice a female targeting another angel, you'll need to intervene by removing either the aggressor or the target, or let nature run its course.
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:57 am
by oceanix
thenoob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:48 am
Be aware that the dynamics can shift as they mature. Males tend to bicker but rarely cause harm, whereas females often dictate the hierarchy. It's a gamble - sometimes they'll coexist peacefully, while other times they'll turn on each other. My experience with a 4-foot tank is that having more than two angels, especially with a female, can lead to chaos; an 8-foot tank might be more manageable, depending on the female's aggression level. You can usually disregard male squabbles, but females are a different story - they can be deadly. If you notice a female targeting another angel, you'll need to intervene by removing either the aggressor or the target, or let nature run its course.
So I'm trying to wrap my head around this - what's the deal with the females being so aggressive? Is it like, a female supremacy thing, where they just go after each other? Or is it more like, the queen bee thing, where they just attack anyone who crosses their path? I'm genuinely curious, if left to their own devices, will a dominant female just systematically take out all the other angels?
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:22 pm
by thenoob
oceanix wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:40 pm
I've had six angelfish in my 55-gallon tank for almost a year now, and I still have no idea what their genders are. They haven't shown any signs of breeding, and I know it's nearly impossible to sex them based on appearance.
They're all pretty chill, for the most part. One of them is a bit feistier than the others - it's more likely to chase the others and nips at my fingers when I stick them in the tank. I just did it a few minutes ago, and it managed to scratch my skin slightly (it was going for my knuckle hair). I'm hesitant to call it aggressive, but based on what I've read, I'm guessing that one might be female.
I bought them when they were already pretty old, so they didn't grow up together. By now, I was expecting some kind of territorial war to break out, but it's been surprisingly peaceful. I know things can change as they mature, but it's been weirdly calm so far.
My luck is basically nonexistent, so I doubt I somehow managed to get all males by chance. I'm just curious - is there anything else I should know about keeping them? Are there any notable differences in behavior between males and females?
I've seen them go after both males and females, but I'm still stumped on why they decide another angel needs to leave. I suspect it's a mix of territory and potential mates, but once they've made up their mind, it's game over. They won't change their mind, no matter what - I've tried removing either them or the target for up to 3 months and then reintroducing, but it doesn't work. In a big enough tank, like my 10ftx4ft, the undesired fish can find a safe spot to hide. But in a smaller tank, like a 2ftx4ft, the female can track down the target anywhere.
Re: angelfish care and behavior questions
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:16 pm
by boomer
I think the issue here is the environment we provide for them - the aquarium, no matter the size. In the wild, a group of around 30 angels forms a hierarchy, and when a pair forms, the others know to give them space. We can't replicate that in an aquarium, unless we have an enormous tank. That's why aquarists recommend separating the group if a pair forms.
In their natural habitat, the dominant male defends his female and territory, and chases away other angels that can easily escape. But in an aquarium, that's not possible. With my group of six, it's not unusual for them to be peaceful for a year, but things can change overnight. Environmental conditions control their behavior, so adverse conditions might cause increased aggression or the opposite. Each fish can behave differently, so it's key to be aware of this and have a plan in place if things go wrong.